Thursday, April 9, 2009

Frank van den Bovenkamp & Dan Winter

This post is a follow-up to Goodbye G. 't Hooft, Hello D. Winter. [Make sure to read the March 25, 2011 update below.]

Dan Winter's Web site claims El Naschie gave a talk at one of his conferences. EInfinity Club tells me it's not so; El Naschie has never met Dan Winter; and I believe it. Consequently I pulled the material.

But I may have been a little hasty.

All you need to know about Frank is that he has a Web site with this graphic on it

showing an unfortunate person whose legs have been cleanly severed by mental energy and vital energy.

For an explanation of who Dan Winter is, go below the fold and watch the video.

Now, it's true, I take it, that El Naschie hasn't met these guys. But he did send them an email that makes clear he takes them seriously. Here's part of what he said:


Dear Frank:

Thank you very much for your kind letter. I find all good questions as well as the answers apart of the questions thrown by your work and the work of Dan Winter extremely stimulating. You are both more than scientists. You are artists. In other words you are a source of inspiration. Inspiration is nothing but dust coming from the well of creation. So without you and people like you, we cannot make advances in uncharted seas. This is your strength.


And here's Dan Winter, whose work El Naschie finds extremely stimulating.




On the SCIAM thread, the Naschie Party try to characterize this sort of criticism of El Naschie as "guilt by association". Pffffft. El Naschie voluntarily penned the foregoing paen to their awsomeness, and it is entirely reasonable to take him to task for it.


Update added March 25, 2011


In recent comments here and here, Frank van den Bovenkamp asked to have his name removed from this article because he doesn't want his name sullied by association with Mohamed El Naschie and especially by association with Dan Winter. Frank provides shocking links about Dan Winter that seem to show he's not just a run-of-the-mill crackpot but an unusually dishonest one. Here are his links:

http://www.danwinter.com

http://www.trigunamedia.com/private/dan_winter_claims
[broken link as of 4 December 2011]

http://www.trigunamedia.com/private/dw-controversy
[broken link as of 4 December 2011]

http://www.trigunamedia.com/private/friends-of-dan-winter
[broken link as of 4 December 2011]
[Update: See http://www.casakhuan.org instead of those broken links.]

http://www.trigunamedia.com/info/index.htm#history

Frank also has this website: http://www.heartcoherence.com/

Here is a website of Dan Winter: http://www.goldenmean.info/.

Here is a PDF in which Dan explains his side of the legal conflict in Frank's links.

El Naschie Watch readers and anyone who found this page searching for "Frank van den Bovankamp" in a search engine should please be aware that Frank does not want to be associated with Dan Winter, in fact their relationship is one of antipathy. Follow the links and read all about it. To me it makes more sense to put in these links than to remove anyone's name. Web surfers and Googlers can form their own opinions.

Leaving aside the question of dishonesty or fraudulence, I regard both Dan Winter and Frank van den Bovencamp to be woo-woo, and I am not taking sides between them. My interest is in El Naschie, and the fact that he wrote a complimentary note about Dan and Frank is relevant to El Naschie Watch readers. So I won't remove anyone's name, and I hope this explanation is satisfactory. Frank and for that matter Dan are welcome to comment wherever they like on this unmoderated blog if they think further explanation is needed.


Translate English to Arabic


محمد النشائي El Naschie Watch محمد النشائي El Naschie News محمد النشائي
محمد النشائي All El Naschie All The Time محمد النشائي

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30 comments:

  1. That would do the job, including me conspiring in creating a lot of content from little (whereas my normal job goes just the other way around, as you sure will know). But that's allright for a change. Cheers & take care, F.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Jason

    I just sent you an email with practical solution as your current line of defence against my affiliation with Dan Winter (resp. El Naschie) through your blog proofs not completely satisfactory. Plz. follow up. Thanks - Frank van den Bovenkamp, www.trigunamedia.com

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  3. FRANK VAN DEN BOVENKAMP IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH
    DAN WINTER

    ReplyDelete
  4. FRANK VAN DEN BOVENKAMP IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH DAN WINTER

    ReplyDelete
  5. FRANK VAN DEN BOVENKAMP IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH DAN WINTER

    ReplyDelete
  6. Jason what is wrong with you??

    I was inclined to take you a little bit serious, but more and more I'm getting that you seem some lonely fellow stalking others safely from behind his computer.

    omg..

    I mean, what's the reason not to do the minor fix I asked you to do? Your earlier argument that you need to inform your readers doesn't hold because with my suggestion they see exactly the same.

    Before I need to hear other excuses - what do you have yourself really..? Just show me any references, job-affiliation or personal achievents..?

    Frank

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  7. On March 26, 2011, you were satisfied with the update and now, 8 months later, you are not. What happened in the mean time? Perhaps some changes in the position of planets? LOL

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  8. Jason - just for the sake of clarity:

    I was satisfied but that was naïve.

    You require people to go read your blog to find out that what they find on google is not what it seems. Fine with me but it clearly doesn't work. People are asking all the time(IF they do..!).

    The "Dan Winter" phrase is still on google and needs to be fixed on that level. I came up with a simple fix so you can still inform your actual visitors.

    Note that my only "connection" with ElNaschie on the web (and by all reason, anyway..)is through your blog. So please fix it straight and clean so we can get it over with.

    Frank

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  9. People are asking you what?

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  10. ps. and of course, also remove my full name from the article itself.

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  11. Frank... What are people asking you? Also, why did El Naschie write to you? Clearly he was responding to some communication of yours.

    Your website http://www.heartcoherence.com/ is a load of quackery, crackpottery, bollocks, and horseshit.

    ReplyDelete
  12. How's that, people are asking what? Jason: people who look me up look for information - not for some unrelated personal blog!

    IF they inquire AT ALL after being pointed at my "affiliation with Dan Winter", I can take away their concerns.

    Now, as you posted that article, please just fix it, and if you do it the way I suggested nothing will even change for you and your homies, and you and I are through with it, does that sound allright?

    I guess if you want more satisfaction from your blog, why not better just focus on your own audience?


    Frank

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  13. Why did El Naschie write to you?

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  14. Jason, are you doing this all alone..? Just wondering if you don't mind.

    Ok.. like I wrote to you before (maybe by email), ElNaschie was in touch with Dan Winter, not with me initially. He got to know me through Dan Winter, and as I recall he sent an email with a few questions to Dan, and we both replied separately. Then he sent his rather personal letter to me or us to which I never replied, and that was it. He was one of the many who come and go. If there would be a blog like yours on everybody I was in touch with like this, blogspot.com would need a new server parc.

    Ok.. what people ask me is, how come I appear to be affiliated to Dan Winter and that it looks bad on google, and that they are concerned about it. So I explain to people how it came on your blog, and that I have no dealings with Dan Winter anymore.

    I've done my best to answer your questions, as I realise this is important for you. Can you now fix this so we can get back to work?

    ReplyDelete
  15. It's my blog if that's what you mean. I have important helpers who do investigations and tip me off.

    Did El Naschie write to Dan Winter first, or did Dan Winter write to El Naschie first?

    Did El Naschie write to you first, or did you write to El Naschie first?

    Why do people think you are affiliated with Dan Winter? It should be clear to anyone with even the most rudimentary reading comprehension skills that you are no longer associated with him.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Frank! I know you will thank me for this. I have discovered that three of the links you provided to explain your earlier connection with Dan Winter have somehow inexplicably gone dead! See above in the main body of the post, now updated with my comments in red.

    That's why people think you are still associated with him. To fix the problem, all you have to do is keep those pages up-to-date.

    ReplyDelete
  17. "Note that my only 'connection' with ElNaschie on the web (and by all reason, anyway..)is through your blog."

    Really, Frank? Why don't you tell your "homies" to remove your name from this list:

    http://unifiedfieldtheories.com/

    on which you are an "Esteemed Collaborator" along with El Naschie, then?

    And, of course, one should not forget that the Winter/El Naschie/Bovenkamp correspondence is still avaliable on-line:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ancient-Mysteries/message/13066

    In other words: your connection to El Naschie (and Winter) is evident even without referral to this blog.

    And BTW, Frank, I'm not Jason. LOL

    ReplyDelete
  18. Jason: I'm not on a Dan Winter witch hunt. Yes, I did clean up my website, including the links because that time the "DW-FB" link was not (high) on Google, and Dan Winter himself is not actively creating any troubles for me anymore. He's heard the message. I'm working hard here, and I assume even Dan is, in his own way, we're not police men and I guess we both can't use any negativity.

    Btw. the casakhuan.com link is still on top of heartcoherence.com, so far for my final good-bye to Dan Winter.

    Who wrote who first? No idea, it was their thing, so if it's important ask DW himself! Certainly it wasn't me. People are asking questions all the time and EN's weren's any special. I just forgot about him and didn't reply to his "fanmail".

    My past connection to DW or the actual contents of your blog or a rare few other (obscure) resources as such is not the issue (I've nothing to hide).

    It's only the glaring, literal "DW & FB" google first impression, in conjuction with DW's reputation. You know how people react and move about on the web.

    F.y.i. to my best knowledge also DW himself wasn't in touch any longer with EN. So that means Jason, that the only very obvious (EN-) DW - FB "connection" on FB search comes from your blog!

    I guess it's not your dream to help Mr. ElNaschie to indirectly cause even more trouble for others.

    So that's the only thing, to fix it as it creates a negative and untrue first impression on google. With all the information from my side, just fix it straightforwardly now - can we agree on that?

    ps. why not simply change the title in "ElNaschie and Dan Winter" - that's completely appropriate, historically and obviously reputation-wise, so totally consistent with your blog.

    ReplyDelete
  19. ps. of course: www.casakhuan.org (not .com)- that wraps up all the previous links, you can simply replace those.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Whazzup now Jason, don't know what to say anymore?

    What about this: if this thing on Google is so important for you, or you think I'm too much of a perfectionist that I want it away, why not simply say it? In the other case draw one line for yourself: either your ElNaschie blog is just your way of getting a bit of attention, OR you do your job actually well and police over all fraudulous scientists, I mean, seriously.. There are thousands of ElNaschies and Dan Winters in the world. Just now 2 major science frauds were busted here in the Netherlands, it was all over the news (the real news). As long as you're merely playing around, annoying working people, using your wits to cash in on small vulnarabilities, it remains a bit sad and futile display. I've likewise played along a bit Jason.. Why not use your wits to finish a study yourself, or do something creative, etc..? Just wondering, are you a (highschool) student having time for this, or what really?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Shrink, thank you for finding the Yahoo groups link that contains the El Naschie emails to these guys in context. Very helpful.

    Frank, you wrote several emails to me about Google directing people to this post when they search for your name. You said "this costs me money". I cannot sympathize. Your money is made by swindling the gullible out of € 3350 (excl. tax/VAT) for each NeuroGem + CardioGem BUNDLE which you promote on your sites with New Age hokum and woo. It is depressing that you manage to sell any of those at all. You should give everyone refunds and find honest work flipping hamburgers or whatever is the equivalent entry-level job in the Netherlands. That's my opinion.

    There isn't anything unfair to you about this blog entry, and you had better get used to it's staying up.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Jason, you're involving yourself with real people, exposing themselves in the real world doing real things. Risking criticism.. improving themselves.. networking.. making a living.. And yes, it's not always a smooth ride. What more can I say.. internet makes it possible for you to do this. It's not very.. manly.. how can I explain.. you meet a girl in a bar and she askes what are you doing. "I'm the ElNaschie blogger" HA!! O..M..G..

    Really, Dan Winter with all his narcissism and awkwardness I still respect infinitely much more than people like you - I guess this summarizes the trend of our whole discussion.

    Good bye Jason.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Frank, it's funny you think that Jason is a high-school bully. Internet makes it possible (your own words) to discover who he is in reality - hint: have a look at the very first posts on this blog.

    Anyway, Jason should keep the post in its current form: your connection to Winter and El Naschie is a fact and - you know - internet makes it possible for information to be available no matter how one tries to hide it. LOL

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  24. Jason, I just saw at least you added casakhuan to the links, that's good. Better also highlight your "make sure to read.." note in red, you very easily miss it and then you get all those DW vids and don't look further. - F.

    ReplyDelete
  25. ok thanks

    last thing:
    "All you need to know about Frank van den Bovenkamp is that.."

    change into:

    "All you need to know about Frank is that.."

    then Google will subtitle the update right away. -F.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I know this is like 5 years later and I bumped it, but reading all these comments literally made my day.

    I sorta knew there was something odd about Dan Winter in the back of my mind.

    Shrink you are Awesome.
    Much respect.
    Jason Keep this Blog up. It helped me out A LOT!

    ReplyDelete