Tuesday, October 19, 2010

Laurent Nottale said to deserve Nobel

(Click pic for bigger.)
Could there be a rivalry with El Naschie? That would explain why Nottale isn't a member of the shadowy Brotherhood.


The photo was taken in El Naschie's back yard in Surrey.

Zahy points to new comments in FQXi-395, which has been silent for six months. To jump directly to the latest comments in our archive, click here.


This is interesting:

Sylvain Poirier links to El Naschie Watch. We get clicks from there. He has a page criticizing Nottale: Critique de la relativité d'échelle de Laurent Nottale.

There are Wikipedia pages for Laurent Nottale and his theory of Scale Relativity. (To me it seems insane to have those but not have El Naschie and E-infinity theory articles. Both are crackpots but El Naschie is more famous.)

If you look at the Scale Relativity talk page, you'll see Poirier has left scathing commentary:




Criticism

Scale relativity theory has no recognized value among physicists. Its reputation in France was roughly reduced to a mere mediatic phenomenon made by some popular science journals, spreading the myth of a genial discoverer... This myth was based on the fact that Nottale's writing ways made it practically impossible to criticize his ideas, because... his empty "theory" was a mere game of introductions and announcements, that did not present any precise idea that could be a matter of criticism. In other words, it seemed like "not even false". The few scientists that tried to examine what it was about, just gave up because there was nothing to understand there. So it required some courage and time to find and write down any concrete reason to disagree, in order to put any stop to the mediatic worship of this assumed misunderstood genius, which mosts scientists won't bother doing as soon as they noticed there was nothing interesting for physics to see there. Years ago I developed this criticism in French. I'm sorry I did not translate it into English, and I have myself other more important things to do in life than to work on this translation. Some other physicists approved my remarks, but of course as usual they did not take the time and risks to work further on explanations or to make any public mentions on this subject. Since I developed this criticism fully enough, which then appeared for years among the first few google results on "Nottale" or "Relativité d'échelle" (the French for "scale relativity), no defender of Scale Relativity had anything effective to reply but they just gave up or kept silent (except one that published back a lot of insults but nothing concrete); the mediatic enthusiasm in France for Nottale's ideas stopped, and it did not interest anybody anymore.

I'm sorry to see more people still waste their time with this non-theory, just because they did not yet examine the deep contents to see themselves that it is empty (if they know physics well enough for this, of course) and because they don't understand French. All what I can offer you now, apart from my references page in French that includes some English links, is this recent little mention about Nottale [Dead link. Go here instead] linking to my criticism.

One more thing: why did not this article link to the French equivalent ? To not let visitors be aware of the bad reputation of this "theory" in France, through the inclusions of the criticism motives to the French version of the article that nobody dared to edit away ? Okay, I'll do this now. --Spoirier (talk) 00:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)




I think there may actually be rivalry between El Naschie and Nottale, no kidding.

Here is a very relevant PDF in French. It's mostly about Nottale, but El Naschie comes up as well, and there are hints of a rivalry.

Vincent Bontems et Yves Gingras: De la science normale à la science marginale. Analyse d'une bifurcation de trajectoire scientifique : le cas de la Théorie de la Relativité d'Échelle

Unfortunately the document's security settings prevent me from hosting it on Scribd.

Translate English to Arabic
محمد النشائى El Naschie Watch محمد النشائي El Naschie News محمد النشائى محمد النشائي All El Naschie All The Time محمد النشائى
StumbleUpon.com

10 comments:

  1. Ray is a eager to propose him for a Nobel, I suppose. :D

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hi Shrink, Zahy & Jason,

    I am not on the Nobel nominating committee - my opinion doesn't count. It is funny how a simple comment gets blown out of proportion, and comments that were placed on FQXi reappear here, but you know I lurk around this site. My current paper builds on El Naschie's ideas, but wait for my next paper. In it, I build on Nottale's ideas and some of my past ideas - it will rock your world-view (if you are open-minded enough to seriously consider the relevance of Scales). I hope that my ideas help reinspire El Naschie and Nottale, and that their upcoming years will be their best years despite the current level of criticism against their works.

    Have Fun!

    Ray Munroe

    ReplyDelete
  3. Well, the Nobel Committee selects the nominees from the nomination forms sent by the experts: with some luck you could be one of the recipients of such a form. ;)

    If you lurk around this site, then you should be aware that it has an archive of the comments from FQXi-395 which is regularly updated.

    Regarding your comment: you probably know of El Naschie's (and his group) claims that his ideas are Nobel worthy despite of the fact that they have no recognized value by the experts. And that's a striking similarity between El Naschie and Nottale - as Jason points to in his post. Pretty funny, indeed.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi Shrink,

    Of course, I am aware of claims that El Naschie deserves a Nobel prize (which is usually split 3 ways - the picture above has three people..., but the ideas currently lack proper experimental confirmation). In 1981, one of my professors said that my Quantum Statistical Grand Unified Theory was a "Nobel-effort" (punning with noble-effort), but I have too weak a connection with the Physics establishment to actually expect to receive such a prestigious award. I have studied and considered El Naschie's ideas for the past two years, but I am still befuddled by how to set the scales such that we can explain all of El Naschie's ideas. Perhaps it is as simple as: some ideas are correct and some ideas are wrong, and we need to filter the signal from the noise. The funny thing is that it took scales and their properties for me to make sense out of Supersymmetry, the "Higgs" Mechanism, and Quantum Statistical Grand Unified Theory. Nottale's ideas were much of the inspiration for my next paper, and I hope that he (or El Naschie, or Ord, or...) can build on those ideas.

    Have Fun!

    Ray Munroe

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hi Ray, Doesn't it seem to you that there a Nottale vs. El Naschie rivalry?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hi Jason,

    I've never met either man, and really wouldn't know.

    Have Fun!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Also, Ray, you say "It is funny how a simple comment gets blown out of proportion." You are referring of course to this comment of yours: "Personally, I think that Nottale's ideas are Nobel-worthy, but I'm not exactly sure how to verify them experimentally." You've made a comically grandiose statement about an obscure (to be polite) physicist. I think most people would come to a different conclusion about who is doing the blowing-out-of-proportion.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi Jason,

    Yes - it was my comment that got blown out of proportion. You will just have to wait for my next paper to find out how that "obsure (to be polite)" physicist's ideas impacted my ideas. I think that a fundamental idea that inspires other fundamental ideas should be Nobel-worthy, but I am well-aware of the Nobel emphasis on experimental results over theoretical models. As such, these theoretical models are "not ready for prime time".

    Have Fun!

    Ray Munroe

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hi Jason,

    I would like to draw attention back to FQXi 395. On Nov 8, blogger "BN", who sounds like an El Naschie supporter, proposed that El Naschie, Nottale and Ord should share a Nobel prize. If El Naschie supporters like Nottale that much, then there probably isn't a rivalry. I'm just making an observation - draw your own conclusions...

    Have Fun!

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi Ray, thanks for that observation. At one point I went through the Vincent Bontems et Yves Gingras piece and was convinced there was a rivalry, but I don't remember the exact section. Also, Nottale was not part of the E-infinity group. One wonders why not.

    ReplyDelete